Mary Hoggatt: Couples Therapy Influenced By Internal Family Systems

 

Are you in a constant war with yourself, like you want something, but part of you doesn’t want it? You might want to listen to today’s topic if you carry those opposing parts inside you. Mary Hoggatt, the Founder of True Adventure Counseling, takes us into couples therapy influenced by internal family systems. She explains how false identities impact our lives. Also, Mary urges everyone to do their identity work. Stop living your false identity and start healing yourself by treading towards a true adventure with Mary Hoggatt.

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Mary Hoggatt: Couples Therapy Influenced By Internal Family Systems

Mary Hoggatt with True Adventure Counseling has been working in the field of mental health for the last decade. She is passionate about helping people face the false identities they have lived under and step forward into the freedom of who they truly are. She has worked extensively in the areas of trauma, abuse, codependency, childhood experiences, and broken relationships.

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Mary, welcome. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you for having me. It’s such a joy to be with you.

I’m hoping you could start us off by letting us know how you got into the work you’re doing and what drives your passion for it.

I never saw myself as a therapist but I had walked with a friend who was losing her partner. They had only been married for about five years. I was walking with her and her two young children as he was dying of colon cancer. There was something so beautiful, vulnerable, and unique about walking with her over the last eighteen months of his life. I found myself coming alive and being able to be present with her in a place where she could process and talk through things.

After going through that, I wanted to figure out what was that for me. From that, I dove into therapy. I wanted to be a therapist, yet I had some hindrances to that because as most people, I have walked through some hard things. In my opinion, a therapist has it all together and has this perfect life and knows all the things, but as I was sitting with it, it was like, “Therapists know what it is to walk through pain.” I dove in and loved every minute of it. With every client that I go to work with, there’s a new story, a new experience, and a new piece that they open up, and that’s my favorite. I’ve been doing this for the last few years, and it has been extraordinary.

You talk in your literature about helping people with identity. What does that mean to you? How does that person form an identity or reform?

Often the work we’re doing is reforming because so often, we adopt identities that either somebody gave us or we assumed were our identity based on the things that we walked through, whether it’s a broken childhood, whether it’s abuse, whether it’s people pleaser, or whatever those pieces are. We often form identities, vows, and ideas about who we are that are not truly connected to who we are. We walk through life and wonder why things don’t fit right, why we don’t feel alive, why things aren’t connecting with us, and why trauma keeps coming, “I keep finding it over and over again. I keep having these broken relationships over and over again and feeling unfulfilled.”

That is often because we are not walking in the truth of our identity or who we are. I love walking with people to say, “Where did we pick up the pieces of your identity? If we go back and heal those pieces, how does that make you who you are?” Rewriting identity is so exciting. Watching people step back into life in a brand-new way, see themselves in a new way, and relate to other people in a new way, whether it’s with their partner, their children, their career, or even themselves is fun.

Rewriting identity is exciting. It's exciting to watch people step back into life in a brand new way, see themselves in a new way, and relate to others in a new way. Click To Tweet

Do you have a specific process for helping people either identify and/or rewrite whatever it is they’re holding inside of themselves as an identity?

One of my favorite pieces is to look at trauma. All of us have trauma in one way or the other. We’re looking at those traumas and what the messages were that we hung onto from those traumas. CBT is great but one of my favorites in the last few years has been Internal Family Systems or IFS where we go back to those parts. They could be trauma places, joy places, or these little pieces that we started hanging onto a message.

We’re going back to those parts, bringing the healing or unburdening those parts, and then letting those parts come forward in a more present way in the joy and the identity pieces of who we are meant to be. It’s fascinating to watch this happen with couples and individuals of any age. It’s a transformative process.

We should clarify a little bit what you mean when you talk about a part because some people of a certain age might have seen television movies about Sybil and other multiple personality disorders. Some people are a little skittish about talking about parts but that’s not what you’re referring to.

Let’s say you and I were having a conversation. You want to work out more and go to the gym more. You’re like, “There’s a part of me that wants to go, but there’s this other part of me that wants to stay in bed.” All of us have had that conversation, “I want to do this but part of me doesn’t or part of me is scared.” Those are the parts that we’re talking about. It’s based on your story, your experiences, and the different messages that we hang on to.

We’re not talking about multiple personalities. These parts of you and the ideas and the experiences you have are formed and are carried with you all the time. You and I are having a conversation. Maybe I remind you of a niece. There’s part of you that’s like, “It’s my niece.” There are things that kick in that can trigger our experiences, memories, and thoughts that kick in that are part of our experiences now. Those parts are where we go back to and figure out what’s going on with those parts.

Other words people have used to try and describe this are perspectives, motivations, positions that I hold, and aspects of my personality. It’s interesting because in the Internal Family Systems work, there is a structure of theory about it, which is a way to try and describe what we observe happens with people.

One of the core observations in that is that there aren’t any bad parts. These parts are aspects of my personality and/or strengths and creativity within me that got stirred up to try and handle a difficult situation at some previous times in my life. Depending upon the intensity of the situation and my coping skills at the time, I may or may not have felt like I could handle this or I was going to survive it. When you work with people, how do you pull in the parts work to the identity work?

Some people can go with the parts conversation. For some people, that feels a little bit too outside the box. Often, I’ll say, “Talk to me about what the perspective is here. Talk to me about what you’re thinking and what the messages are.” Knowing that, we bring in with identity work, “When we’re talking about this, where do you feel it? What is the emotion that’s going on?”

Sometimes they’re like, “I feel tense in my shoulders.” “That makes sense. Let’s follow that. Where does that tenseness come from? What is the thought that’s going through your head?” “This is expected of me.” “Where did that expectation come from?” “My dad always needed me to be the best at everything.” “You had this perspective part where you have high expectations because somebody told you that you are the best at everything, so now you have to hang on to that.”

“That can be a way that we look at the identity piece but what if that’s not true? What if you don’t have to be the best at everything? What if you can just be? What does that look like to be?” You see their shoulders start to come down, “I could be not the best at writing but I am a good mom,” or whatever those pieces are. They start finding new pieces to their identity. They don’t have to prioritize or put on a pedestal this one area and keep striving for that. It would bring more balance to who they are.

I don’t know if you use it or not but one of the best ways that I learned years ago to help people into that is a thing called body journaling or holographic memory reprocessing. After you help them identify, they feel tight in their shoulders. You have the person get very clear in their description of it, hot, cold, large, small, movement, smooth, sharp, or texture. Once they get that sensation specified in these descriptors, whether there’s a color or a temperature to it, then you have them talk directly to that part and ask it, “When was the first time you got put into my body?”

This thing bubbles up, “This was the time my dad was screaming at me because I was less than perfect on the soccer field.” It’s following the physical sensations or what a lot of people are calling somatic therapy and somatic-informed and trauma-informed therapy. It’s reconnecting people’s conscious awareness to their physical energy system and using it as good information as opposed to what we do most in the Western world, which is conditioning people to numb it out, distract from it, and dissociate from it.

It’s so interesting that you bring this up. I’ve had several clients that stay very cognitive. We have lots of conversations about thoughts and perspectives but when I try to have them come further down into their body, they’re such a block. We have gone back to, “Feelings weren’t safe. I don’t know what that feels like.” We’re finding ways to get them to connect more to their bodies.

It’s interesting because whenever we do that, they immediately go to, “I don’t know why I’m thinking about it. When I was twelve years old, this happened.” I’m sure you’ve read The Body Keeps the Score. Our bodies remember our emotions. Cognitively, we work hard to ignore, put aside, suppress, numb, and addict. We find ways to cognitively push off but our bodies don’t forget.

 

Decades before The Body Keeps the Score was written by Bessel van der Kolk, Babette Rothschild wrote the book, The Body Remembers. It’s this book that was inviting us as therapists to pay more attention to the physiological interplay and the little facial changes, flushing of skin color, and breath patterns that would indicate that someone is moving out of parasympathetic into a sympathetic response or out of a relaxed rest-and-digest response into a stress or fight-or-flight response right there in therapy. Whereas if you’re looking at them as an intellectual entity sitting in your office, you don’t notice any of those things and lose all that information.

It’s a holistic process. You’re seeing the person in front of you as a holistic being. I’m not kidding. I’ve seen clients. When we start going to a part, their physicality becomes almost childlike. In couples’ work, this is always fascinating. When there’s a part that one of the individuals takes on that goes back to their childhood, you can see them become almost childlike in their physicality.

You’re helping them draw attention, “What’s going on? Where are your thoughts?” They immediately go to a twelve-year-old part or whatever that is. It’s paying attention to that but then also, what’s so cool is when you watch a part get healed and unburdened, you watch them step back and step into themselves again. Not every time it is immediate. Sometimes it takes a while to get there, but I’ve seen an immediate shift in physicality in how they respond.

There can be many repetitions of trying to open a conversation with a particular perspective or part before there’s a breakthrough yet the breakthroughs are evident when they happen. The critical piece there is, “Can I be patient and gentle with myself as I’m looking at establishing that rapport, connection, or communication so that whatever is needed by that younger part or that perspective of myself that’s so afraid of survival or functioning properly can be supplied by my core self, and then that breakthrough can happen?”

I have one client. We found a three-year-old perspective or part of where she was then. The part was there on the floor playing. She’s like, “I don’t like it. I don’t want to get on the floor and play with that.” There is a nonacceptance that she has of herself that’s very much getting in the way. We’re working. She’s working on, “What is in the way for me?” She’s like, “It’s the three-year-old me. Why would I not?” There’s such a block there. We’re paying attention to what’s going on so that she can find the freedom and acceptance and eventually love herself enough to take care of herself but we run into these blocks, so we have to find what is getting in the way. It’s so fascinating.

As I identify that I might have parts of myself that are feeding an identity that is blocking me, what do I do? How do I come in a process with a therapist like you? How do I make a shift that would help me rewrite my identity?

This is where it gets fun for me. I always say, “Fun,” and clients are like, “This is not fun.” I’m like, “I know it’s not fun but this is the journey. This is the adventure of finding out who you’re.” I’ll give you an example. I’m working with a sweet young mom. She’s a brand-new mom. Her postpartum depression is significant. She has deep sadness. She’s scared of her sadness. She wants somebody else to hold it. She wants her partner to hold it, “This is too much. I need you to hold my sadness. Now I can breathe.”

 

What is happening there is there’s something that she developed early in her life where there wasn’t a lot of room for emotion. She was the smart one. She was the nice one. She was the pretty one. This is the identity. There is no room for sadness but as a little girl, there was a point where she lost a pet. She was so sad but she didn’t feel that it was okay for her to have her sadness with her family. She tried to push aside this perspective, this part, or this experience very quickly and move on. Now that this sadness is coming up as a new mom, she doesn’t know where to go.

We have walked toward this sad part, and she has such compassion for this sad part. She’s still scared of the emotion of this part but she’s walking toward it and finding that she can get closer. That sad part has to be invited out. That sad part has to say, “I can make room for your sadness, and it’s going to be okay.” She’s finding what’s guarding her from going toward that sadness and letting herself hold it. She’s also inviting the sadness to come out so that she can experience it.

This is where she went cognitive again. She goes, “I know that sadness brings me something. I know that there’s a gift here.” She’s a little bit of a type-A, “I don’t know what it’s going to be. The unknown is hard for me.” That’s another perspective. It doesn’t all have to be controlled. There are a couple of perspectives or parts that we’re working with here that we need to get through to get to this place where she can allow her sadness to be something that could be a gift and isn’t so scary.

When you were saying that she says, “The unknown is difficult for me,” that’s a wonderful thing to explore. Why is that? The only way that can be is if I’ve got an association in my mind that says, “The unknown is bad,” or I start projecting into the unknown negativity. On the other hand, if I started to project into the unknown, “They may be giving me a gift. There might be $1 million on the other side of that door,” I can’t wait to explore the unknown. For somebody who carries within them a statement like this person made, the unknown is difficult. If you’re listening well, you know, “This person has a connection in their mind between negativity and the unknown.”

She has an experience in her early college years where there was an unknown that she didn’t feel prepared for. She made a vow around that time, “I won’t do an unknown. I will always know as much as I can and stay in control.”

I can tell a story about my dad. Bless his heart. Rest his soul. He hated surprises, and he let everybody know it, “Don’t surprise me. I hate surprises.” The origin of that was that as a young man at the beginning of college, his mother had planned a surprise party for him with all of her friends. His dad died when he was six. He was the man of the house from six on.

He had come home with some friends from college. They had been partying and they had planned for a party. He had no idea that she had this party there. My dad was a very sensitive and loving person. He would never have wanted to hurt his mother’s feelings yet now, he’s between a rock and a hard place. She felt devastated. He felt angry and responsible for devastating her. That was the origin for him of, “No surprises. It doesn’t matter what it is.”

It’s not worth it.

The risk is way too high.

There’s a risk, pain, or fear that we experience that we don’t have the capacity for. Usually, one of those parts or perspectives gets stuck. We have a message, vow, or perspective of ourselves or the perspective of the world that locks in. That’s where we get stuck in identities that don’t belong to us. That’s where we get stuck in identities that hinder us rather than allow us.

A part of us getting stuck is that we’re going to work it at the intellectual rational level, and we’re not going to let ourselves go into an experiential level. Even though he knew what this origin was, it never got worked on or resolved because he wasn’t willing to go back and feel what was going on in him or feel what he downloaded in that interaction with his mother and that surprise party which was so devastating. Why would he never do that? Probably because it was tied to the grief of losing his father at six years old. If I’m not willing to turn and face the fearful parts of my mind that are too much for me, I stay right where I am in terms of that level of functioning on that issue. I don’t make progress unless I’m willing to face it.

This is so interesting. One of my favorite clientele to work with is couples because so often, couples come to each other with those needs that were not met or get stuck in those perspectives, hoping that their partner is going to fix this. The way Richard Schwartz talks about it is, “This person is going to be my redeemer. This person is going to redeem these places for me because I’m going to be able to rework these areas, and they’re going to make it all better. I’m going to feel chosen and loved. I’m going to feel that I’m enough. I’m going to feel validated and valued. I’m going to feel like I have worth. This person outside of me is going to give me all of this,” but it never works because it’s external. It is something outside of you. It’s outside of your identity.

The stuck point and/or the trauma is inside me.

We have to face what’s inside of us to heal that. Schwartz talks about this a lot. When that’s healed inside of you, then your person gets to be the person that you live freely with, and you have what’s called courageous love. He calls it courageous love. I love how he said that. His amazing book, which you recommended, You Are the One You’ve Been Waiting For, incorporates IFS or Internal Family Systems and Couples Therapy or what happens between a couple.

We have to face what's inside of us to heal. Click To Tweet

He said, “Generally, what our partner provokes in you is what you need to heal.” I thought that was so perfect. That is so true. Whatever is provoked between you and your partner, usually, there are parts of you or perspectives of you that get so enraged, hurt, or re-traumatized by what’s going on in your relationship with your partner, not because they’re intentionally doing this, and there is that too, but because your part needs to be healed and was hoping that this redeemer person would fix it, and they’re not. You feel even doubly hurt by it.

When I recommended that book to you, I said that for a lot of years, I would catch flak from people, whether it’s in a group setting or a couple’s therapy setting. If I would see an emotional upset or trigger in somebody, I would focus on them to help them find a way to release that or at least identify it for future work. People would say, “You’re not doing couples work, group work, or family systems work.”

This application of Internal Family Systems to intimate relationships is the validation that this is a very solid way to work with people within the couple’s dynamic or a family dynamic even because I’m looking at an actual internal causal mechanism and providing the relief for the person by helping them understand how is it that they are creating the emotion they’re experiencing in the moment. What are they making this interaction between themselves and their partner mean? They’re the ones giving it the meaning. What’s so often exciting and hopeful is when we help people communicate about what it means to each of them, they see, “That’s a very different meaning from over here.”

It’s those different experiences. Often, the experience that I’m living out in the moment because my partner is doing this is not the experience of the moment. It’s a past experience or a whole mountain of experience. I’m playing it out again because I’m living in that place. I’m living in that part. My partner is also responding to his whole mountain of experience. Why are we not communicating? Why are we not connecting? Why is this the same argument we have had for 30 years? It’s because these parts have not been healed. I keep going to him that he’s going to make it all better. He keeps coming to me and hoping that I’m going to make that part all better for him. It doesn’t work.

This reminds me of this phrase that Brené Brown talks about. She said that has saved her marriage on a number of occasions. It’s an acknowledgment of what you and I are talking about, “I’m the one that creates my upset in here with whatever interpretation I’m choosing and placing on this interaction between me and you and the world around me.”

It’s the story I’m telling myself.

She says, “When I get triggered, the story I’m telling myself now is here’s the story.” The classic example is that he comes home and says, “Did you have something planned for dinner?” She goes into a spin, “Just because I’m the woman, and I have to do all the domestic stuff.” She was getting all ramped up. She caught herself and said, “The story I’m telling myself now is that you think just because I’m the woman, I have to do all this.”

She went on for a bit with all of the permutations and negativity that were spilling out. He said, “Thanks for letting me know that. The reason I asked is that on the way home, I stopped and got fixings for lasagna. If you are going to have something else, I’ll make this tomorrow. Otherwise, I’ll make lasagna for dinner tonight.” The whole thing diffuses.

This is the opposite of whatever culture teaches us. My culture teaches me that when I have a negative emotion in here, it means I need to scan the environment for who I have to attack, run away from, bribe, or seduce so I get them to change so I don’t have to feel this. This is the opposite of that. I realize I don’t like what’s going on in here. I take a breath, turn the focus inside, and ask myself, “What am I making this situation mean? How am I creating this negative emotion?” If I’m working with a therapist like you, I learn some tools for dismantling that pattern of thought, emotion, and physical tension. I’m free to move through the situation more lovingly and respectfully.

To go back to what you’re saying, the culture has conditioned us. No wonder we’re tired because we’re constantly changing our environment. No wonder we’re feeling anxious because any of those things can throw me off. No wonder we’re feeling attacked over and over again but we don’t know exactly what the attack is because it’s all outside of us.

We’re projecting that it’s outside of us.

If we can come in here, go inside, and say, “What story am I telling myself? Why am I telling myself this story?” we can rewrite the story. We can rewrite the chapters from here out. We can rewrite what a relationship looks like. We can rewrite what the world looks like. We can rewrite how we engage with it. We can rewrite how we live with our story and take care of it. It is so beautiful when we’re able to do that because we become more powerful. I love how Schwartz talks about courageous love. There is a whole depth to love that many of us have not experienced because we need it to be a certain thing, and we’re white-knuckling and trying to force it but that isn’t love. There’s an experience of love that we get to have.

 

It’s inside you. Once you tap into it and experience it, then you start sharing that with your partner and others, it amplifies. It’s the reverse of a zero-sum game. The more you give, the more you have it and the more you experience it as you’re giving it. There’s this book. I’m interviewing somebody. His name is Stephen Jacobs. There’s a line in it that I’ve quoted a few times on my other internet show because it’s so close to what we have observed or what you and I are talking about now.

I have a bottom-line observation. I handed out ten of these. They’re printed up, and I give them to people in a first or second session. One of them says, “What happens to me and around me in my life is nowhere near as important as how I choose to interpret and respond to those events.” Stephen Jacob says, “The real power in any situation is always our interpretation of that situation. The real power lies in how I’m interpreting it.”

The real power in any situation is always our interpretation of that situation. The real power lies in how we interpret it. Click To Tweet

The work that you’re talking about doing with people, the IFS work, and the trauma work are uncovering if the roots of the interpretation I’m placing on this event are from a trauma I had at age twelve, that would be important for me to know because I’m sitting here and thinking I’m relating to you as a competent adult relating to another competent adult. Yet if the interpretation I’m placing on your head nods or the last thing you said is coming from a twelve-year-old who got interrupted brutally and verbally abused by some teacher, then I’m not going to make this interaction mean respectful communication between two professionals on an interview. I’m going to get all triggered.

One of my clients came up with this knowledge, and I loved it. He recognized a seven-year-old part who was untrustworthy of women in particular because he was abused by women at that age. With his wife and his daughter, his seven-year-old part can sometimes get triggered. He goes, “When the seven-year-old is driving the car, it gets messy.”

He said, “How about I drive? You go ahead and sit in the back. I’m going to take care of it. These women are safe, and I will make sure that you’re safe. You can go ahead and sit back there. I’m going to drive the car.” That goes exactly with what you’re saying. We don’t recognize because we’re in fight or flight or an urgent way of responding. Sometimes we don’t recognize, “I’m responding like a seven-year-old. My seven-year-old self is driving the car.”

One of the fundamental pieces that I know you understand and you’re getting from reading Dr. Schwartz’s book is that to get movement in that, I can’t be thinking about it. I have to have a visualized experiential conversation between the adult Tim and the seven-year-old Tim. I have to find out with that childlike curiosity what my seven-year-old perspective, part, aspect, or motivation needs me to be aware of and what needs to be done in this interaction so that it feels heard and understood.

One of the ways Schwartz talks about it specifically with couple therapy is don’t talk from your part. Talk for your parts. Say, “Sometimes when we interact like this, it brings up this part of me. I realize I’m responding like this, and I don’t want to do that but this part does need to know. My voice matters to you.” In the partnerships, the partner would be like, “Your voice does matter to me.” I would want your part to know that you can talk about that. There’s room for you to talk about that. It’s fascinating to be able to speak for your parts, not from your parts.

I wonder if you could get centered, take a breath, and think about what we have talked about so far, whether it was in the pre-interview talk or now that you might want to go back to and highlight, or something we haven’t even mentioned about you, your practice, what you offer, and how you work with people that you want to get in before we have to wrap up.

This has been such a fun conversation because I feel like I’ve gotten to talk about all of my favorites. I love talking about identity work. It breaks my heart. Many people are not living in the identity of who they are. We’re living out of these broken parts. Identity work is so key. IFS is a wonderful way of going to those places of broken identity and healing it.

Identity work is a wonderful way of going to places of broken identity and healing. Click To Tweet

Here’s one of the things that I often talk about with my clients once there’s a part that’s healed. Let’s say we worked on your twelve-year-old part, and you’re like, “That part is unburdened. I don’t have to hang onto that message anymore. I don’t have to live in that broken place anymore.” I’ll often say, “Do something that your twelve-year-old part would love to do. Go for a bike ride or get ice cream.” We get access back to this living, beautiful, joyful, and creative vitality that was always meant to be there. That’s coming back to the identity of who you are. That’s always fascinating.

I love doing couples work. It’s interesting because I’m a marriage and family therapist but I love family systems so much that I didn’t think that I would necessarily want to do couples because that gets messy, and there’s conflict. I’m finding that one of my greatest joys is to work with couples because it’s two individuals. A couple is only as healthy as the least healthy person.

When we’re able to go back and say, “Sue, how do we work with what’s going on with you? What are the parts that are coming up here? Sam, what’s coming up with you?” and find the healing in those parts, they can step into a different kind of love or relationship. I’ll often say, “We’re going to go into relationship 2.0. This is the new you, the new relationship, and the new way of communicating and seeing each other. It’s not about getting rid of conflict. It’s how to have healthier conflict and recognize what’s coming up for you.”

I love all of those pieces. It’s so much fun. To every client that I get to work with, I always say, “This is my favorite because I get to experience and learn along with you.” I don’t know it all but we get to find our way there. We get to journey toward whatever the truth of who you are is. I’m about to launch my website, and the name of my counseling agency is True Adventure Counseling because it’s an adventure to find the truth about you. That’s me.

If people want to find that when that website is launched, what’s your URL going to be?

It’s TrueAdventureCounseling.com. I’m Mary Hoggatt. It’s me. I love it. Eventually, I hope to have more to join me. It’s my greatest honor to walk with people as they walk toward health and their true wholeness.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to share with us. I will send you a couple of other book titles that might interest you. I look forward to hearing about the success of your practice and its launch. I’m assuming with the way most of us have done these days that you’re doing more virtually so people don’t have to be in your hometown to get access to you.

I’m doing all of it virtually, which is fun because I get to be here at home. My family is here. Clients get to be where they feel safest. We get to dive in together.

Thanks again for taking time to be with us. It’s a pleasure.

Thank you so much. It was an honor to be with you. Take care.

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Mary Hoggatt with True Adventure Counseling has been working in the field of mental health for the last decade. She is passionate about helping people face the false identities they have lived under and step forward into the freedom of who they truly are. She has worked extensively in the areas of trauma, abuse, codependency, childhood experiences, and broken relationships.

As a therapist, she is committed to walking with individuals and couples to rewrite messages of abandonment, shame, guilt, anxiety, and abuse into messages of hope, purpose, health, confidence, and joy. You can find out more about Mary Hoggatt at TrueAdventureCounseling.com or contact her at Mary.Hoggatt@TrueAdventureCounseling.com.

 

Important Links

• TrueAdventureCounseling.com
• Mary.Hoggatt@TrueAdventureCounseling.com
• The Body Keeps the Score
• The Body Remembers
• You Are the One You’ve Been Waiting For
• Stephen Jacobs – Previous Episode

 

About Mary Hoggatt

Mary Hoggatt, with True Adventure Counseling, has been working in the field of mental health for the last decade. She is passionate about helping people to face the false identities they’ve lived under and to step forward into the freedom of who they truly are. She has worked extensively in the areas of trauma, abuse, codependency, childhood experiences, and broken relationships. As a therapist, she is committed to walking with individuals and couples to rewrite messages of abandonment, shame, guilt, anxiety and abuse into messages of hope, purpose, health, confidence and joy. You can find out more about Mary Hoggatt at TrueAdventureCounseling.com or contact her at Mary.Hoggatt@TrueAdventureCounseling.com

 

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