Nonviolent Communication isn’t some fluffy ideal—it’s a real, down-to-earth skill you can use every day to transform your relationships. Today, we’re diving into the nitty-gritty of how to express yourself authentically and listen deeply with Micah Salaberrios, author of “The Art of Nonviolent Communication.” In this episode, Micah shares his personal journey, from a childhood filled with verbal clashes to mastering a concise, practical approach to NVC. He spills the beans on how a simple moment of “emergency empathy” changed everything for him, and we unpack the real difference between requests and demands. Plus, we get real about tone, those tricky feelings, and how to actually implement these tools when emotions are running high. If you’re tired of misunderstandings and ready for clearer, more genuine connections, this conversation is for you.
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Micah Salaberrios – Author Of The Art Of Nonviolent Communication
Micah Salaberrios is the author of the acclaimed book, The Art of Nonviolent Communication, and the Host of the popular Art of Nonviolent Communication Podcast. With more than a decade of experience teaching nonviolent communication to people around the world, Micah is known for making deep, transformative principles practical and accessible. He’s also a seasoned musician and video editor, driven by a passion for helping humanity communicate with more clarity, empathy, and authenticity.
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Thanks for being here. It’s delightful to see you.
Timothy, I’m happy to be here. Thanks for bringing me on.
Discovering Nonviolent Communication: From Personal Struggles To Powerful Tools
I’m excited to talk about this. I’m hoping you can tell us a little bit about how you got the interest in nonviolent communication and what led you to write this book, The Art of Nonviolent Communication. You’re free to put as much or as little of your own story in there as you want, but take it away.
It started with my childhood. We all have pluses and minuses in our childhood. I had a loving mom, but she was a bit aggressive with her words. When she would get angry. She was violent with her words. We knew she loved us, but she would just use her words a lot. I took those in and was like that too. Not as much as her. I really tried to not do that, but I was still very judging, condemning, guilt-tripping, the tools of the trade. As an adult, one time I was I was working on a project and we’d been working for like six months. There were some very intense feelings and passive-aggressive behavior.
It was just coming to a hilt and then all blew up at one. The producer used NVC on me, which I didn’t know what it was, but she was like, “Are you feeling upset because you’d like more appreciation for all the talent you’re bringing to the table?” It was like literally exactly how I felt. It was stunning, in that moment of conflict, for her to just switch and do emergency empathy. It brought tears because I was passionate. We were both passionate and that’s good, but because sometimes, that’s going to be intense. It brought tears in my eyes, and then we hugged and worked it out. Later, she’s like, “I did NVC on you. I’d just been taking a class.”
I was like, “What is that? I need to learn it.” I looked for classes and stuff, but they were so expensive. I took a class and I left feeling very unsatisfied. It was very fluffy language. I just read his book again and again, Marshall Rosenberg’s book. I listened to his videos and that was it. That was the workbook. Once I discovered it, I wanted the knowledge so bad that it became my highest excitement pretty much every day. I had a long commute. I would listen to it every day.
I was practicing all the time. I was talking about it all the time. I was just studying it. I realized this is not only my weakness, it was my whole family’s weakness. This was the antidote to, a weakness in my family, being way too verbally violent. Not intentionally. We’re not bad people. We were just so careless with our words. As I was learning, it turned out I had a knack for it. For whatever reason, I was able to understand it well, and the concepts.
I ended up teaching the producer who was already taking the class. I ended up coaching her and her relationships, which was funny. Everywhere I went, I was just sharing it and then it became clear to me that pretty much everybody could benefit from NVC. Almost everybody, even psychologists, like you. Are you a psychologist or a psychiatrist?
Yes, absolutely, a psychologist.
Therapist Vs. Psychiatrist: Clarifying Mental Health Professions
Is there a difference between the two?
The psychologist has a PhD or a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology, and the psychiatrist has an MD and then chooses to specializes in what they call diseases of the mind. I do not have a medical degree. I’ve just been doing therapy with people for over 51 years.
I was just teaching people and people would get stuck on the same issues again and again. I got tired of repeating the same in-depth point, and it was just a pattern. I went home for Christmas one year, right around that time. All I was doing was teaching NVC to everyone in my family. They all wanted it. Even my nieces and nephews, 12 or 13 years old, my mom, my sisters, my sister’s neighbor. I was there and I like being productive. I was like, “I’m here. It’s Christmas break.” I took two weeks there, which is a long time to be with the family.
I keep repeating myself. Let me just write. I felt like I had something to contribute to NVC because I like being concise and no fluff, just straight, all the information. It was very fun. I decided to write it. I basically wrote the outline there. I went home and then I was doing another experiment in my life. I was in California at the time, and I was smoking weed. I noticed that weed was a pattern. It was just an avoidance pattern. I noticed that if I ever got bored, then I would smoke some weed, and then I would want to play music.
I would have fun playing music for a couple of hours. At the end, I would be a scattered mess. I wouldn’t finish anything. I really became clear of that pattern. I decided, “All right, I’m not going to do that anymore. Every time I feel that feeling of boredom, I’m going to just accept that feeling and focus on it. It’s from positive meditation. It’s all related. It’s a long trail, which is like observe. Don’t run from the pain. Don’t run to pleasure. Just observe what’s going on, accept it. I did an experiment. What happened was, every time I would get that feeling, instead of trying to avoid, I would go sit down. I would focus on this feeling of boredom.
It would always lead me to doing something fun. Most of the time, as I was writing the book, I would do that, and then I would get an idea for the book, and I start writing, and I’d go, “I’m having fun being productive.” The more I wrote on the book, the better it felt. Every time I would finish working on the book, I had a good feeling. It was weird because I was like, “Who am I to write this book?” I have no authority, I have no credentials. I was like, “Who cares? It feels good. I’ll keep doing it.” I did it and yeah, I went through a lot of rounds and I finished it, self-published, and it’s out in the world. People like it. It seems to be helping people as, as you’re a testament to.
The 10-Year Journey: Crafting “The Art Of Nonviolent Communication”
How long ago was it that you were introduced by that producer to the non-violent communication process?
I guess it was about ten years now.
How long ago did you finally put the book out?
I guess that was about 2019, around that time.
Don't run from the pain, or to pleasure; simply observe what's going on. Share on XIt’s a remarkable tool for me because, as you mentioned, you learned it by reading Dr. Rosenberg’s books. I’ve listened to those. I got introduced to that years ago. These days, a lot of what I intake is through Audible. It’s a 6 or 7-hour investment to listen to a Dr. Rosenberg work. Most of the time, I refer people back to the original source because there’s such depth and richness that comes, these little trails, the little flavor of the way the person’s conceptualizing it and speaking about it. In your case, it’s so concise and, in my opinion, so accurate that I refer people to your book rather than his these days.
That’s the greatest compliment.
That’s why you’re here. This show is trying to help people have access to practical tools for dealing with mental health challenges. This is one of the best. What I tell people is that this little summary of the nonviolent communication process that Dr. Marshall Rosenberg created is 1 of 4 communication tools that I recommend to people, because they all have the same fundamental pieces.
Except that yours is so beautifully laid out. You do have that gift for making things concise and clear, and it’s clear that you have passion for this. What I’m aware of with my history and experience is you’ve put so much in this book that you don’t even know it. You’ve pulled in stuff that resonates all kinds of different pieces of work that I work with people on, on a regular basis.
Appreciation for what you already wove in there. Learning to sit with your emotions rather than blame them on somebody else or run away from them, or think that something has to be done about them, etc. Jill Bolte Taylor, who has the book My Stroke of Insight, after that, she was writing other books and quoting research that says, “If you have a strong emotion and you sit with it, breathe and soften, 90 seconds tops, it’s going to move through you.”
There’s solid research on this. I can bang the gong on that emotion and keep feeling it. You know a little bit about music. You know what happened. If you bang a gong, you set up that resonance and it carries for a while, but if you don’t keep banging the gong, it quiets down. That’s just like that with our emotions. If we can become aware of the thought pattern that we’re using to generate the emotion and decide to just sit with it and breathe rather than insist that that thought is true and keep pouring our mind energy into it, hammering the idea that I’m right here.
There’s so much good stuff that’s just on the fringes of this work, that if people keep listening to it and you explicitly say just near the end of the second chapter, you’re talking about the emotional process. It is so full of really good stuff from a variety of other sources that I freely recommend it to people on the internet show I do, the support groups I run, and my caseload on a regular basis.
That’s why I did it. I needed the knowledge so much, and it was so apparent that the world needed it and my family needed it, and everyone I know. Not needed it. Some people need it, but everybody could benefit from it. I just wanted to share it so that I stay present with me because you can learn something and then that was 10 years ago and you forget it. No, I wanted to keep it present. That was the urge. Hearing all this is really heartwarming because it means it works, the mission worked and that’s awesome.
People say, “Why this book?” I say, “The first thing is you can listen to the audio version in under an hour if you’re listening on regular speed. After you’ve listened once or twice, you can put it up to one and a half speed and still catch it all, and your mind is going to pull it in.” It’s that repetition. It’s the learning that framework for thinking through things and experiencing what comes up in you. There’s so many good and concise clarifications about what’s the difference between a request and a manipulation or a demand or a manipulation or a demand disguised as a request. You do it beautifully.
I tell people there’s a couple of examples and there’s a template and then the story with your mom, which is critical. The honesty about how when I’m sitting here with somebody that I’ve got all of this emotional investment in and baggage from history, I don’t want to use NVC. I don’t want to use non-violent communication. I want them to just quit barking at me, or I want them to see that I’m right. It’s beautifully simply stated how he didn’t even want to back off and do the emergency empathy with your mom, but you did. The results, as you say, were wonderful and rich.
Our relationship has changed. It used to go into just obnoxious areas and it’s down like 80%, 90%. I’m still human still. I totally forget about NVC sometimes, but that’s the great part about NVC. It’s very easy to forget NVC when you’re triggered. You just go back. However, the more you practice, even at your lowest point, there’s certain things you just don’t do because that feeling is so foreign. That feeling of name calling. You still might do some guilt trips or whatever, bad tone. Tone is tricky. It’s tricky to really reign in your tone. Over time, those things really do fall off the more you practice NVC. I really love that about NVC.
One of the things that can help as, as you say, is practice. The idea of tuning into something that you don’t have explicitly in your book, but comes from a number of other sources is the idea that when I am in anger, when I’m in hurt or tension or grief, there’s something off in the way I am using my thoughts in this moment, and there’s something useful. This is why, at the end of chapter two, you talk about the usefulness of the emotion or the energy that’s in emotions, the information that’s in our emotions.
One of the things that if a person is willing to practice this, that every time they’re upset, it means that whatever their mind is telling them in that moment is not completely true. It might have a nugget of truth or several nuggets but it’s either completely false or only partially true. If in that moment, the person can sit with the emotion or the energy and ask for a different way to look at the situation, worlds open up.
It’s amazing. You said that 90-second thing. It’s so true. It’s like we run from these emotions so quickly, but if we would just sit with them for 90 seconds with no judgment, there’s a reason for this emotion. Don’t hate it, don’t fight it. It’s here. It’s too late. It exists. Accept it. It guides us if we don’t judge it and hate it or judge ourselves for having it.
It’s wisdom that pops up in a lot of other places. There’s a book about fifteen commitments of conscious leadership. One of those commitments is I commit to be aware of my emotions, to own them, to feel them fully, to speak and act and express them. They work themselves through and the Jill Bolte Taylor books with her research about how quickly it’ll move through if we use the breath and we stay present rather than trying to analyze it or blame it or run away from it as an energy that we’re experiencing. It’s just wonderful that so many different places are finding some of these nuggets of truth. By truth, I mean just the observation of how things actually work.
Just the realistic, practical way life works, humans work. We could do a fairytale, but that’s not very helpful. That’s what I felt when I took that one class. It was like it was too fairy tale-ish. That’s not going to work, I don’t think. At least not my life. That was one of my goals of the book. I want it to be very practical, very realistic. You can read a little bit and then go try it in the real world, and it will get immediate results.
Mastering Nonviolent Communication: A Step-By-Step Guide To Authentic Expression
You talk about how when you first start to use it, it’s awkward. It’s difficult. It’s like learning any new skill. The first time they handed me a ball and said, “Throw this,” it didn’t look like it does now. The first time I tried to drive a car, etc. We can practice. Some people think this is ridiculous, because, of course, I know how to communicate. Of course, I know how to talk because we do it so automatically, we do it so often. We think we’re right in the way we’re doing it.
The ability to understand that if I’m upset, it means whatever my mind is telling me in that moment is not completely accurate. I can start to use any upset I have then as the wake-up call, “Tim, it sounds not going right in here.” If people are willing to do it, getting The Art of Nonviolent Communication, if you like to read, it’s in written form and it’s in Audible as a $4 or $5 download, it only takes an hour to ingest it, which means I can do it once a week for a while. I can sneak in an hour of effort that’s designed to help improve potentially every relationship I have.
Business, friends, family, strangers, authority figures. It works everywhere.
In this little talk we’re doing, do you have them memorized, the summary steps you put at the end that you can rattle them off for us?
People get stuck on the same issues again and again and again. Share on XYeah.
Go ahead.
The basic steps?
The outline. The basic steps.
There’s like a pre-step. The pre-step is to observe that you’re upset or there’s an issue. There’s an issue that’s going on and you want to bring attention to it. That’s the whole point. This is why I love NVC, too. The fact that you can express uncomfortable things in an authentic way. That’s probably like my favorite thing. I love authenticity. This allowed me to be authentic at all times without being aggressive or inflaming the issue.
The first step is to bring up whatever the issue is using observable facts. I call it the art because it is art. Every step is very clear and basic. However, it’s life and it’s nuanced. If it’s the trash that’s overflowing, you say, “I see that the trash is full,” instead of like, “The kitchen’s a mess,” which is a judgment. It instantly triggers. Sometimes, it’s not so clear.
A lot of times, someone will come in the room. They’ll just say one word, they go, “Hmm,” and you’re just annoyed. You’re like, “I’m annoyed.” What’s the observable fact there? That’s where the art comes in. You just got to remember the bigger goal, the bigger goal is just to bring attention to why you’re upset and address something. You can go, “I’m not sure what that means.” That could be the observable fact.
“I heard something. I didn’t know if you said a word,” so it’s not labeling it as when you smirk, when you taunt me or whatever. The art that you’re talking about is becoming aware of how loaded emotionally so many of the words have become that we use.
You want to bring attention to whatever it is, and it is sometimes very clear and easy, sometimes it’s not. When it’s not so clear, it’s easy how to bring it up. Just bring it up as the most non-judgmental way you can. The next step is your feeling, how you feel in your body authentically. Every step has its tricks. The biggest thing is to never imply that anyone else is bad or wrong. That’s just never going to get any good results. Almost never will that get a good result in your whole life, it’s what we want to do. Isn’t that crazy? It’s what we all want to do.
Also, that you understand you’re the one that’s creating whatever emotion you’re experiencing. That’s in here and it’s the heart of the work I do with some of the other people, over and over again repeating, “Didn’t you see what that person did?” Yes, they did that. That’s not what’s causing your reaction.
That’s a big point. That was one of the key things that almost everybody struggled with. It’s like, “No, you are 100% responsible for how you feel. Yeah, they did something. I go through many examples. The second step is how you feel. Feelings is one word you have to avoid the trap of, “I feel as if.” That was another thing. Almost everybody does it. “I feel as if, I feel like.” That is this word trickery. That’s not a feeling. That’s a judgment every time. As soon as anybody says, “I feel as if,” that a judgment comes. “I feel like you’re wrong and I’m right.” Basically, that’s what this says.
“How do you feel?” “Well, I think that,” okay, you’re in a thought, not a feeling.
I would prefer that. I would be like at least it’s accurate. It’s not a feeling because we do this feeling thing because a feeling is like, “I have an intuition from God,” or, “I have a deeper understanding of the world that’s coming as a feeling and it says you are wrong.” It’s like, “No, I feel mad, I feel sad, I feel angry. I feel annoyed.” That’s the thing. It’s a vulnerable act. It builds immediate rapport and connection when we are honestly expressing ourselves and owning it. That’s the trick. That’s the nuance too. “I heard the sound you made when you walked in and it annoyed me.” Now you’re blaming them and you’re not taking responsibility for your feelings. I heard that sound you just made and I’m feeling annoyed.” That little tiny nuance, “It annoyed me. I’m feeling it,” is huge.
Let me interrupt you here, because what you just slipped in there is something that if you listen to a full 6 or 7 hours of Dr. Michael Rosenberg’s work, he talks about this pre-step. The pre-pre-step is that you’re going to do something like nonviolent communication because you want to connect. “I want to do this because I want to prove to you, I’m right and you’re wrong or I want to tell you how right you are and how wrong I am.” It’s that the goal of doing this work is I want this connection. What you just talked about is when I move to talking about how I’m genuinely feeling, what my emotional state is, it’s a vulnerable, it’s an openness that invites connection.
It invites more authenticity. No one really wants to say, “I feel angry.” It’s not a win. We’re not like, “Yeah, I feel angry.” No. When you say that, everybody knows instantly you just admitted to being angry. They might not think the thought, but they’ll feel it. “You said you feel angry and you’re not blaming me.” It’s unsettling. It’s almost like, “Where’s the ground? Let me just calm down and listen to what else you got to say.”
The first step is the description without the loaded emotional and interpretive judgment words. The second step is, “I feel.”
That’s the step, too, where you have to own it. You are responsible because the key thing is you feel the way you do based on how you are framing the whole situation. If you frame it differently, you feel differently. That’s why I always use the example of you get stood up. Someone’s supposed to come and they call right before and cancel, or they don’t show up and you feel sad and angry. If you didn’t want to go, then you would feel happy and like, “Yes, they didn’t come.” Who’s responsible for how you feel? You. That’s just like such a big important, absolutely important thing, to really embrace and accept.
Learn to observe. It’s not like you have to take it on faith. Observe it. When you’re honest about what’s the interpretation, you’re throwing on something, and if you choose a different interpretation, you’ll be able to feel the difference in the feeling. You get to immediately observe this is how it works.
It’s an immediate change. The third step is to express why you feel the way you do. This one is easy to skip but it’s very important. It always comes back to why you feel the way you do, never because of you. “I feel the way I do because of my value. This is important to me. I value a clean house. I need freedom. Laughter is important to me. Cleanliness.
“When this happens a certain way, it requires me to make changes to get things the way I want them to be.” It’s the actual impact on your life that you’re sharing.
Emotions last about 90 seconds. Instead of running, sit with them without judgment. They exist for a reason and can guide you if you accept them without hate or self-judgment. Share on XYou’re saying your values, your preferences, your desires, your wants, your likes. One of the things I think is important to not sound like you’re doing NVC when you’re doing it, to be really effective, you want it to sound as natural as possible. This is where the art comes in, too. You want to know the rules, but you can bend the rules a little bit. I don’t mind when people use dislike. “I feel this way because I don’t like it when this happens.” That’s like not necessarily clicked from Marshall Rosenberg and just from a bigger more spiritual view, like frame things in the positive. However, it sounds normal. It’s still not saying you’re bad and wrong.
I’m okay with that when people use it. Express the value, then they understand where you’re coming from. When you don’t blame them on this step too, this is another easy way to blame them. We have all kinds of little word tricks that shift the blame to them. When you don’t, it’s very different. This is the key differences. The last step is the specific request. That’s where you make a real request, not a demand. Not a manipulation.
The difference between a request and a demand is a request can be refused without punishment. A demand will always have some form of punishment, no matter how nicely, “Would you pretty please do this?” They say no and it’s like, “You’re so,” because that was a demand. It needs to be specific, not vague, not like, “Can you just be a little nicer?” It’s like, “No.” What does that mean? It doesn’t mean anything. What do you mean?
Refining The Process: Balancing Rules With Natural, Authentic Dialogue
From the book. How about, “Can you just be more responsible with the way you’re spending money?”
“Sure. How much more responsible? 2% more or 3%?”
How do you mark that? How do you measure it?
For how long? It’s just all these vague things, but it’s the illusion of it’s safe for us because when we say something vague and they agree to something vague, nobody knows what we agree to. We just assume they’re agreeing to exactly what we want them to agree to and they assume they’re agreeing to just what they want to agree to. Nothing’s really agreed to.
There’s no clarity and there’s no effective communication.
The same thing happens again and it’s a bigger blowup. It needs to be specific, very specific. “On purchases of over $1,000, can you talk to me before you do it?” That’s specific. We know what we’re talking about then. It’s scary. That’s another scary thing because when you’re that specific, there’s no room to hide. There’s no room to be vague, because we have so many tricks. We’re so nuanced in our trickery and words and negotiations and hiding and half stepping, like, “I half step to solve this problem and then take the easy way out at the last second by being vague.” Specific requests. There are three types of requests.
There’s the action-based request, which is easy to understand. “Will you take the trash out in the next ten minutes?” That’s an action. There’s the clarity. “Can you tell me why the trash is full still? I don’t understand. Can you help me understand why this is happening?” The connection-based request. I always make sure people understand this because conversation is so nuanced. A lot of times, this is going to be layers of NVC going on, and especially on a bigger, deeper issue like someone’s drinking habit or someone’s big life habit that are not going to be solved in one conversation.
A great way to enter into these conversations is you start off with the connection-based request, which really is just sharing with someone that’s saying like, “This is happening. I feel upset about it in some way because this is my value. I just want you to know that.” That’s the connection-based request. “I just want you to understand that I don’t know what the answer is. I’m not telling you to do something. I just want to make sure you are aware that when this happens, I often feel this way.”
A lot of times, that will solve things. That’s the lightest touch because if that’s appropriate, if you’re like, “I’m feeling this way and I need you to do this thing,” sometimes, it’s out of the blue. It’s just way too much. However, if you start with a connection-based request, now they understand, “I didn’t know you feel that way,” then you could do another round with a clarity-based request. Now you understand more. Now both people understand more, and then you can lead to an action-based request based on all this.
Empathy First: Emergency Empathy And The Art Of Diffusing Conflict
To clarify, what I’m hearing you say is that the connection-based request is my request of you is just, “Please hear me as I tell you that when this happens, I feel this. I don’t like how that feels. I just want you to be aware of that. Not that you have to change anything right now. Not that you have to agree with me that this thing is bad or wrong.” I’m requesting the connection between you and me in the shared awareness that this is happening and I’m owning my feelings about it.
Yes. It’s very powerful. That’s the lightest touch. It really sometimes solves decisions. I would say half the time, that’s probably all you really have to do. If you’re dealing with someone in good faith, they realize that all of a sudden, they change the habit. It’s effortless because some things, we leave our shoes there and it’s bothering somebody else.
We don’t say like, “Please, never leave your shoes there.” “I just want to let you know, whenever I see that there, I feel annoyed. You’re a free person. I don’t own you. You can do what you want. I just want you to know that.” A lot of times, it’s easy for them, you didn’t tell them. Of course, no matter how good your NVC is, people are going to get triggered because they’re not going to necessarily hear what you’re saying.
You then have the almighty emergency empathy. Anytime the things go off the tracks, you do emergency empathy where you guess how they feel and why. I actually have a new book coming out. It’s The Art of the Emergency Empathy where I do a deeper dive in just that. I go back over the basic principles. It’s a standalone book, but I really do the deep dive in that because it’s just so amazing. That’s just such a real gift. It’s almost like a lifestyle. You can just be empathy first wherever you go. You can use it in conflict and you can use it not in conflict. It’s so simple. You guess how they feel and why. Of course, like you said, it’s the last thing you’re going to want to do when you’re triggered.
You are not going to want to do it in the beginning, most likely. I’m sure there’s some people who will when they’re triggered, but yeah, you guess how they feel. It has to be that two punch because a lot of us would be like, “Why are you upset?” That doesn’t have the same power as, “Are you upset because of what I said last night?” Again, that’s breaking the rules right there because you’re not supposed to bring on yourself. I guess the proper way of like, “Are you feeling upset because clean houses helps you feel relaxed?”
“Don’t you believe that I understand that a clean house is important to you?” I like how you’re saying, “I’m willing to stretch the rules as long as the intent is the same. I’m just trying to connect. I’m not trying to prove I’m right and you’re wrong.”
There’s no implication that you’re saying the other person is bad and wrong. That is the golden rule. There’s never time to break that. Never imply that’re bad and wrong because who are we to judge? There’s no bad and wrong. That’s not even a measurable, concrete thing. There’s preferences. If you can even get religious with it, you still don’t say bad or wrong, but you can say, “The scripture says this.” That’s a fact. We’re not the judge. We just deal in facts.
Also, getting clear about how I’m putting an interpretation on this fact that I’m using to generate an emotion I don’t want to keep feeling. I’m not putting this on you to change my emotions. I’m just in the process of trying to connect with you by clarifying what it is that’s going on in me and being open about it. Sometimes, that will then move into a request and sometimes not. As you said, the request can simply be, “Can you just take a few minutes to understand my position on this so we can connect?”
Never imply that anyone else is bad or wrong; that's just never going to get good results. Share on XI’ve noticed NVC gets a bit of a bad name because people use it incorrectly and they’ll do things like, “What I need from you is more sympathy.” That sounds like, “They’re being right and I’m wrong and bad.” There’s a lot of trickery, but I feel like when you do it right, it clarifies.
The Power Of Cancelling Goals And Reframing Needs
Let throw a little something in your pot for your thinking about this. For the last twenty-some years, I’ve been working with a body of work that talks about the importance of canceling my goals whenever I’m upset. Not that the goal is bad, but that somehow within me, this goal not getting met is connected to my upset. When a goal isn’t getting met or when I go like this, the best thing for me to do is cancel the goal.
The second to last time I listened back through The Art of Nonviolent Communication and the last time I was listening through to Dr. Rosenberg’s six-hour tome on that, I realized it’s so much more palatable for me, if every time he says the word need, I substitute the word goal. It’s not necessarily a need I have. It’s a goal I’m holding. If I can cancel that goal and breathe and come into me, I get access to it. What’s the part of me that’s got that connected to this upset?
If you work on this and you’re putting out this next book, if you want to play with that idea, as Dr. Rosenberg talks about, get everybody’s needs met. Instead of that word need, put the word want or the put the word goal. Watch how it softens because everybody has such loaded meanings for these different words. Most of us, when we say need, it’s bottom line. It’s got to happen.
It’s intense.
Most of us are using a word like that incorrectly because it’s not really a need because we don’t get it and our life goes on anyway. A need is, if I don’t get it, my life doesn’t go on.
You need air. You need water. You need sunshine. You need sympathy.
“I would really like from you,” and then put your request in there that’s specific and time limited.
That’s what I tell all the people I work with. I personally do not ever use the word need unless it is a true need because there’s so many other things. I value, I prefer, I want, I like. I have a goal. I’ve never used that one, but that’s a good one. I have a goal of this. That’s great.
The power that can come from me pairing, canceling the goal or just the phrase, “I cancel my goal or my need for this,” and pairing that with a calming breath, so now my body gets this muscle memory for, “When Tim says I cancel that, I calm down.” It’s powerful impact. I start to program myself to respond to the phrase, “I’m going to cancel my need to be. I’m going to cancel my need for anyone or anything to change,” and then I soften and then my perspective broadens. I see things more clearly. When I’m holding a goal, when you think you’re right and the world isn’t going that direction, what happens to your vision, your field of vision?
It doesn’t feel good to you, to them, to everything. It’s amazing. Right now, I’m in a band and we’re having some ish challenges. It’s normal. It’s so good that I have NVC. It still takes time to work through issues, but it’s so obvious when someone else just starts name calling. It’s so easy to dodge. Just like, “No, just take time. Never name call, never guilt trip. Just speak in a certain way.”
Once you’ve done NVC long enough, you don’t even have to think about it so much. Sometimes you still really do, especially when you want to do emergency empathy, but just the knowledge of it. Just once you have it really ingrained, it’s just so helpful. It’s like your baseline is so much better and it, and so much conflict is avoided. So much needless, painful, drawn-out conflict is just avoided.
Do you have a title for your second book?
The Art of Emergency Empathy. I’m looking forward to this. I self-published last one. This one has a publisher, which is interesting because now I have to deal with their editors. Before, I was the boss, but we’ll see how it goes. I’m pretty excited about it.
What’s something you want to go back and highlight or something that I haven’t even been asked about yet that I want to make sure I put in this?
I was wondering what other books you recommend. You said you have a list of books and you said a list of tools, four tools that you recommend everybody.
Over the years, there are these four different sources for almost exactly the same thing you have that you just outlined for non-violent communication. One of them is the first one I ran across was back in the ‘80s when I was teaching a class at a community college. The book is titled People Skills by Robert Bolton. His emergency empathy is called reflective listening.
The next one I ran across was Dr. Michael Ryce. He has a tool he calls Responsibility Communication. Instead of blaming you for what I’m feeling, I take 100% responsibility for it. The steps are almost identical. Harville Hendricks wrote a book Getting the Love you Want. In that, he has outlined the Imago dialogue, which is essentially the same thing.
The intent is, simply, for each of those other three sources, to make the connection. This is the way Bolton talks about it. The intention I have in here, how can I figure out if that matches the impact that lands on you. I have to do this reflective listening. I have to check it out with you, just like you do in the emergency empathy business.
When you pretend like you’re them and put yourself in their shoes, to imagine how they might feel.
You are 100% responsible for how you feel. Share on XListen to the feedback. Dr. Michael Ryce says this. You ask a person, “Do you have any ideas how I might fix what’s going on in me or field?” Listen as though you actually think they might have something useful to say.
They’re not going to speak directly. Listen so close and to the subtext because no one speaks directly. No one’s going to really tell you exactly what they feel. If they do, it’s probably the surface like, “Yeah, I feel like that.” You’re like, “That was too easy.” It’s probably more layers underneath there. You really got to listen to the nuance.
You can listen to the emotional energy. If they’re just trying to scoot you away and get out of this, honor that, but understand that you don’t really understand them yet. If they’re closing off and shutting down, you don’t really know what’s going on with them. The next skill level is, you hit this in your book already, you don’t pretend you understand them until you’ve gotten their agreement that you’re connected and you’ll feel the energy come down in them when that connection is made.
I run a practice group, and even when we’re just doing a made-up scenario, the made-up scenario still has an emotional energy, and when it solves, the energy clears. Every time. It’s so key to keep going until it feels good. It doesn’t matter what anybody says. They can be like, “Yes, I agree. You’re right and I’m wrong,” but if it doesn’t feel right, you’re not done. It should feel better. It doesn’t need to always be right. Most of the time, it’s like a laughter, a tear, a hug, and the energy’s super clear and it’s very obvious.
The intensity comes down.
Yeah, to a civil place. Sometimes, that’s enough, but it can’t be up here in this tense thing no matter what. There’s more to work out. There’s another issue, there’s a deeper issue. Something’s not addressed. I love that about how the world works. It’s beautiful.
How To Practice, Apply, And Keep NVC Alive In Everyday Life
How do you prefer people connect with you?
I have a website. You could sign up for emails. I don’t send too many out. I’m actually getting much more active once my book comes out. I have a Patreon, Art of NVC, for a practice group because learning the skills is great, but you really need some repetition. No one’s going to bring these habits in unless you have some repetition. I provide that as a source. I have the podcast out. The book is out. Those are the main places. I have an email ArtOfNVC@Gmail.com if they want to contact me about something.
What is the title of the podcast?
The Art of NVC.
I greatly appreciate your taking the time to share this with our audience. Do you have any timeframe on the second book?
I sent in the manuscript that I thought was finished, but apparently, it’s not. We’ve got some revisions to work out. Things don’t happen very fast with them, but who knows? This one will be a much more wider reach, though, than my last book.
If it’s half the book this is, I’d love to be notified so we can do another interview.
Yeah, that’d be great. It’s a great idea. I’ll probably do that, just do the whole little podcast tour when that book comes out.
Thank you so much for your time. It’s an appreciated honor.
Thank you. I really enjoyed it. It’s amazing to hear that you’re using this book like that. It’s incredible. That’s awesome. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.
Blessings.
Thanks again.
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Micah Salaberrios is the author of the acclaimed book, The Art of Nonviolent Communication, and the Host of the popular Art of Nonviolent Communication Podcast. With more than a decade of experience teaching nonviolent communication to people around the world, Micah is known for making deep, transformative principles, practical and accessible. He’s also a seasoned musician and video editor, driven by a passion for helping humanity communicate with more clarity, empathy, and authenticity.
Important Links
- The Art of Nonviolent Communication
- Art of Nonviolent Communication Podcast
- My Stroke of Insight
- People Skills
- Getting the Love You Want
- Micah Salaberrios Email
About Micah Salaberrios
Micah Salaberrios is the author of the acclaimed book The Art of NVC and host of the popular Art of NVC podcast. With more than a decade of experience teaching Nonviolent Communication to people around the world, Micah is known for making deep, transformative principles both practical and accessible. He’s also a seasoned musician and video editor, driven by a passion for helping humanity communicate with more clarity, empathy, and authenticity.
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